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00:00 You've been an HR executive for like 16 years, right? That's a lot. You must love the job so much. 00:07 I'm the fan. 00:11 Soap operas with Channel 3. I also participate in like musical theaters. Yeah, singer. That was my first career. 00:32 Not only inside me, I think it's in everyone. If we have the problems or any concerns or any like common enemies, see you in the pantry. We need safe zone. We need like peace at work. We have pain. We have family issues. We have our own personal stuff. If you come to work, consider your colleague, your team as the total human being. And that's where your safe zone starts. 00:59 Every time that I do the interview, my final question would be, what's your question for me? Great questions, sometimes, most of the time, tell better than answers. I don't want to encourage people to try to fight with one another based on generation. 01:29 Welcome to the show. 01:30 Thank you so much for having me. 01:31 Okay, we start speaking English now. Okay. Because you usually do you speak English in your workplace or in your real life? 01:39 At the workplace, yes. At workplace. Yes. Okay. But not so much in the real life. 01:43 Nope. Because we haven't found a single video of you speaking English at all. Because we were doing some research, right? 01:50 All right. Yeah. This is going to be my first. 01:53 Wow. 01:54 With a long interview in English. So cool. 01:56 I can't wait. I'm nervous now. 01:58 It's going to be so much fun. 02:00 Yeah, I suppose. Hopefully. Okay. All right. So you are a person of so many roles. You've been a singer. You've been... What have you been? What are you? How many hats are you wearing right now? 02:17 Several roles, I would say. Yeah, singer. That was my first career. I started it when I was eight years old. Very, very little. Super young. 02:27 We all know that. 02:29 We all have heard you sing. The Screaming Boy. The Screaming Boy. That one, yeah. You were. And after that, I did soap operas with Channel 3. Yeah. 02:42 That was an experience as well. Yeah. Did you have fun? Did you like it? A lot of fun. I missed it. I missed it so much. That experience is so, so cool. I also participate in like musical theaters. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm an HR. I am... And you've been an HR executive for like 16 years, right? Yeah, with the bank. Is that 16? With the bank. 03:05 But the total experience would be around 20. 20? Yeah. Wow. For a person to stay in one industry for 20 years. Yes. Yeah. You must love the job so much. 03:19 What is with that face? It's like mixed feelings. Okay. It's like mixed feelings. Understandable. Because initially I wasn't sure. No? I wasn't sure. 03:28 And how did you get into HR then? 03:31 I got into HR by chance actually. By chance. Because I graduated from the Faculty of Arts. My major was English. 03:43 Axon people, we had like similar problem. Like, what should I do after the graduation? 03:50 What's the job? Because we studied something that is very broad and conceptual, literature, linguistics. So at that time, I had a struggle, I would say. And it seems like a door opened for me by chance. A good friend of mine reached out to me. Like, there is a job for you, like a translator. Oh. 04:12 E-learning translator. I didn't know the job. I didn't know that it was an HR job at first. So you have the language skill. That's what got you into the door. Yes, that opens the door for me. And I said, yes, I joined into that particular team. And that was HR. Because it's all about learning development. It's e-learning, digital learning. So that's the first place that I got into. 04:35 Was that a full-time job and a full-time position already? 04:38 Yes. Yes, yes. And I spent a year learning about HR, about the e-learning training and stuff. And I started to like it, but I didn't know it was HR before. No. No. Okay. 04:50 No. 04:50 That was the first time I got to know HR. 04:53 Right, right. I think the word HR... 04:57 We kind of know because if you work at a company, of course you have your HR and you are very close to your HR and everything you do involves in some way or another with HR, right? Yeah, but I don't think a lot of people would know exactly what HR does as a department. 05:17 Yeah, okay. 05:19 It's a little different from what people thought about HR, I would say, because most of people would think that the HR would be like an evil teacher. Like if you go to school, you will have the kind of like strict teachers, right? Yeah, try to discipline you. But no, HR in today's world, I would say we are totally different. We are looking at being the business partners. And we like to be partners with the employees as well. So the role is actually how we support the employees to be successful in their role and make sure that in the same time, the organization needs to be successful as well, because we are the enabler. 05:57 We need to make sure that both like the people and the organization are successful together. 06:03 The crown is down. 06:05 That is so beautifully said. And it is true too, because in order to be successful, we have to be successful together, right? Well, you just wrote a book last year. 06:19 Employee Yee as in you. 06:24 Yeah, in that sense, ill. And it's a handbook. So what do you mean by rat rahan here? So is it harassing people? Is it like bullying people? 06:39 Well, actually, we have to go back to the background a little bit of this particular handbook. 06:47 The main character is Chachani. Chachani is the drag version of me. 06:52 It's hidden inside. 06:53 So this was like, have like fictional? 06:57 Yeah. 06:57 Okay. Yeah. Or pure fictional, but written from the real experience. 07:02 It's fictional. It's fictional, I would say, but it's based on my experience. Yeah. My, my, like 20 experience as in HR and I observed things in organizations and teams and people. And I translated into Chachanese behaviors. You're after ego. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You're right. Yeah. 07:21 So how did you come up with Chachanese? So has she always been there inside you or you have to like create her? 07:27 Not only inside me, I think it's in everyone. She's in everyone. Because, you know, when you face the tough situations or some situations that you don't like and you feel like you need to say something, but the voice in the head is something else, right? But you really need to make sure that you have the right manner in the corporate world. Yeah, because you don't want that voice to be yours. But it could be like too mean, too bitchy or whatever. 07:54 So you kind of create this persona. Exactly. So Chachani is the representation of that. And she says everything she wants to say. 08:03 That's what we love about her, right? 08:05 Yes. She says everything. She says the dark side. 08:09 that you have and she says and she acts as well but in a way she would need to have some struggle and some challenge because others would would not accept her as the way she does so it's the combination of how to and also how not to as well yes yeah that's a fun part yes and she will have also the the her enemy inside the office maybe sometimes it's the boss And also sometimes the colleagues who try to stop her and break her down. 08:40 And she fights back and they fight. Sometimes it's more on the office drama. But it's a lot of fun, I would say. It's funny. It's almost like writing a novel, right? Oh, yeah. 08:51 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 08:53 everything is based on true story true story yeah any like do you have to exaggerate uh sometimes i i suppose in order to like be more fun yes but i think exaggeration maybe it's very close to the truth also yes yeah because people might think that oh this is way too dramatic but guess what, it actually happens in the workplace. 09:19 Yes, it's also the exaggeration that makes things funny and fun and entertaining. So that's what I like about it. You know, in your head, when you want to make fun of something, it's like top of the world already. It's like you can go beyond your imagination and you write things that you cannot say in your real life. And Chachani is the, like I said, it's the reputation of that and the way she acts, the way she talks and the situation that she creates, the conversation with her enemy in the office, it's like, It's like crazy, super crazy, I would say. 09:55 Is that how you actually are in real life, too, in terms of coping with something bad or unpleasant? You just twist it into some sort of dark humor in order to deal with it? 10:08 Yes. It's actually the thoughts that you really wanted to say. 10:13 but you didn't say it. Or sometimes it's the conversation that you cannot talk in the office, but it's the conversation that you would say with the best friends. So it's in there. 10:26 So what made you decide to write this book? 10:31 Good question. Nobody asked me this before. 10:34 I think it's the opportunity someone, a senior friend that time, like long, long time ago, he asked me if I wanted to write a column in his magazine. That time is still the magazine time. And I said, yes, of course, why not? And I started writing it. But unfortunately, the publisher just closed down for some reason. So I kept on the work and I still kept the work with me. You kept writing? Yes. And Salman, the publisher, just reached out to me and he said, okay, we have this kind of slot for you. 11:14 Do you want to do it? I said, yes, I have the available book already. So do you want to go and read it? And let's see if you want to try it with me. Chattani is going to be... in real action now. Do you want to, do you want to consider it? And Salman says, yes, yes. Okay, so, okay, yes, let's go. Yeah, that's where it started. 11:35 Cool. Is there a bottom line message that you intend for the readers, especially like people in the corporate world? 11:44 Yeah, I think people suffer so much these days in corporate world. 11:50 So the bottom line message is that you can be wild, you can have fun, you can be funny at work as the escape. 11:59 from the reality. But still, you need to have some manners. You have to have respect for others as well. So that's the message from Chattani. 12:09 Along the way, you will find it very crazy. But if you read it carefully, there is some kind of bottom line message telling you the how to and how not to, like I said. 12:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12:20 It's a fun read. 12:22 Just go and get your coffee and start reading because I have started I have started reading. I haven't finished it, but I will. Oh, thank you so much. All right. So, one word or more. Let's get to know more about Not Seran through his own word, all right? One word you love saying all the time at work. 12:43 That's not a very good word. 12:48 Actually, two words I would say. I'm going to have a stroke, right? So your veins are popping. You know, work kills sometimes. And it's a lot of things going on in the corporate world these days. And we have to manage lots of stuff and lots of people with different agendas. So that's why I say like very frequently. 13:14 And the other one would be thank you. 13:17 Because it's very simple to really appreciate someone and you really need to send that kind of appreciation to someone, to the team, even to the senior people. So at least it's a simple thing that you could do to cherish others and send the right message or the gratitude that you have for them. So two words. 13:40 Yeah, it's very simple to say and but it works magic with people's feelings too. And let's come back a little bit to like, so what do you do to prevent that from happening? Do you have your own way of Preventing it? 13:58 I have my best friend, Chachani, in my mind. Yeah, that's one. The other one is I have best friends at work. I'm so lucky. I'm very, very lucky that I have great teams. I have great friends. I make best friends at work. My boss, my colleagues, So we feel like we are in the same team if we have the problems or any concerns or any common enemies. 14:26 So we know who to turn to, right? 14:29 We know who to go, like, see you in the pantry. 14:33 And with that kind of signal, people would know, can I see you in the pantry? Yeah. That kind of thing would help relieve the pain and the headache. So I am very lucky. And I've been with the organization long enough. I think it's long enough that they create great environment, the safe zone for myself. Yeah. Because the people I knew and even the senior people, the senior management, they're all very lovely. They're all great people. So it's like my safe zone right now. Yeah. So it helped prevent me from time to time that I'm going to go like having a stroke. 15:09 I love it. Actually, because, well, we, a lot of people might view a workplace as like place we come and be professional and then we can go back and have our real life with our real best friends outside the workplace. But actually you can have in both ways. You can have your best friends here, make friends here, and have a great relationship between you and your colleagues as the best friends too. That could prevent you from having a stroke. 15:39 Yes, yes, because I would agree with you. It's not a black or white thing, right? 15:43 Because you are human. 15:46 Maybe we are not black or white. Most of the time, we're gray, right? And when we come to work, It's impossible that we only turn the mode of being professional on because we still, as a human, we carry lots of things. 16:03 at the back. We have pain, we have family issues, we have our own personal stuff that we might not want to judge others as well. So if you come to work, consider your colleague, your team as the total human being. That's the thing. So if you come to that point already, seeing people as people, you're at home. 16:29 You can make peace. You can make friends. You can be good to everyone around you. And that's where your safe zone starts. 16:35 Yeah. 16:36 Wow. Wow. 16:37 That's, that would be the ultimate HR like paradise situation. Like everybody view everybody else as people and we, 16:46 understand each other and we work together yes let's do it I mean I'd like to encourage all the people not only HR but senior management all the people in the corporate world we need We need safe zone. We need peace at work. So don't try to create drama and try to kill each other at work or try to backstab and everything. It doesn't work that way. The world has been tough enough. 17:14 So I'd like to encourage the smiley workplace, the safe zone. When people come to work, they feel like they are safe. And that's when they want to do more for you. They want to do more for the organization. 17:28 And if that happens, a lot less headaches for Asia. 17:35 Okay. 17:37 How about one word you think office people should stop saying at work? 17:44 ASAP. 17:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 17:48 No, I don't. But now, as soon as possible, right? You know what? 17:55 It might be good for someone who says it, right? Because you're commanding it. You want the work and you try to get something out of your team. 18:05 And you're encouraging your people to be more productive. 18:08 Yeah. But the thing is, the bottom line message of ASAP, for me personally, it's like you're not prepared. 18:17 If you are prepared, you won't say ASAP. 18:21 And ASAP is only good for one person. It's actually the one who says it. But for the rest, I mean, the one who got that kind of instruction, like ASAP, they would have . You know, and for me, personally, I think... when I do work, I want masterpiece. I want something that is close to perfection. But if you do ASAP, you will not get the masterpiece out of ASAP. I totally agree. 18:49 Not everything has to be ASAP. Right. And you said it best that if you say ASAP too often, that might mean that you're not prepared. Like you're not planning the best, right? Because Like I said, not everything has to be like today or now. 19:09 Exactly. But I would understand that in certain circumstances, there could be some urgency in work. That could happen, but not too often. If you plan well, you have the strategy. You plan not only with yourself, but with your team. So less ASAP. 19:27 Yeah. 19:27 Yeah. And that's going to create like peace of mind for everyone. 19:31 Right. Right. So let's just save ASAP for the real urgency. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. How about one job title or job position you think would suit you best if you weren't in HR? 19:46 Chairman? 19:48 CEO? 19:49 President? 19:50 I'll be sad. 19:52 I'm not good as the CEO. You don't want to be on the top? 19:56 No, I think that's a little too lonely for me. Okay. So where else in the organization that you see yourself? 20:05 I don't even see myself in this large organization, but I'll be in school. 20:10 I want to be a career counselor. Actually, because I look back at the time of high school when I was so lost because, you know, my time, there was some kind of value that you need to be a doctor or engineer or dentist only. 20:32 Other careers would be as thin if you go through that path. That's the value in my generation during the high school time. So I wish I could go back to that time and I actually become the career counselor for myself and for like other students as well because I think it's very important to open the world of careers for everyone to really know more about their options in life and there are lots of careers that that are also very exciting apart from being a doctor and engineer. 21:07 There are ways that you can make money and you can be happy as well. I would like to plant that attitude and knowledge for the students these days as well. Yeah, that's maybe my dream. 21:19 Yeah, I love it because career counsellor was so underrated. 21:24 Oh, yeah. 21:25 Yeah, I love it because career counsellor was so underrated. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 21:29 It's more important than us. We kind of overlook that. 21:35 It's not that important because it's not like hard skill. Especially young people, we all need guidance. Because we don't always know what we really want to be. 21:50 what would be the best version of me? 21:52 Where do I have to put myself into society? Exactly. Because if we don't have the kind of like large horizon enough, It'll be limited to the experience of the people surrounding you. It's all about the experience that you have. So if that kind of horizon got like broadened, it'll be a lot of benefit to the students and all the young people that at least they know they have options in life to choose. And they wouldn't feel like so blind or so blocked. 22:26 with like certain value. So that's something I'd like to do. 22:29 Yeah. 22:30 Wow. 22:31 Great. 22:32 Yeah. 22:33 How about one question that, because if we are talking about HR, a lot of people might see like the picture in their head, like the interview room, interviewing people for job, right? So what would be one question you ask every job applicant and you think every recruiter should ask them to? 22:54 Do you have any killer question that would reveal the true color of the applicant right away so you know whether or not you should hire that person? 23:04 Well, I don't have that killer question, I would say. But when I do interviews with the applicants or the interviewees, I would actually try to make it conversational. Because making someone feel natural, comfortable, They will talk the truth. 23:25 Yeah, so that's where I want to reach when I do the interviews with the candidates because I want the candidates to feel comfortable with my conversation with them as well. 23:36 And it's also about the image of the company because if you come to the interview and somebody, the HR, just keep on bragging or trying to bring you down all the time, I don't think that's a good idea. It's not the image of the company that we should do that. 23:56 Every time that I do the interview, my final question would be, what's your question for me? 24:02 Because I personally, I believe that great questions sometimes, most of the time, tell better than answers. 24:12 Because it shows the attitude of that person when they ask questions. It shows the intention and the passion to know more about the job or even know about me. And it also shows the thought process of that person, how they think, how they come up with the questions. 24:32 I would love to hear that question and answer to make sure that the concerns got clarified. 24:40 So what was some of the best questions that you have heard from the applicants when you asked that question? 24:47 The toughest one that I i don't like maybe they would say will you hire me okay in the end is that a good question or bad um it's good for them it's a good one for them okay yeah but it's very difficult for me because um i don't know yet okay i still need time and we we've got like some other people some other candidates to also talk to so i would say well it's killing me But I always say that, okay, please give me some time. 25:19 It's good for them. But the best one, let me think, that I've heard, it's a fair question. 25:25 They ask, okay, what do you, which means me or the company, expect me to do? 25:34 And what can I expect for the company to give me. 25:39 That's tough. Because it's a fair question. 25:43 Because they want to know the expectation that the organization would actually want from them. And in the same time, what can the organization give them as a candidate or the future employee? 25:59 So that's a good question to ask. 26:04 How do you feel about all the AI questions? Because I'm sure that you could just tell that, oh, these people have talked to AI before. And all these questions, all these answers are totally from AI. 26:16 Wow. First of all, can you tell? And second of all, do you mind? 26:21 Actually, I think I can tell because it's going to be in patterns. And it's going to be very, very... 26:29 So not natural. So I think I can tell. But as an HR, I've been in the industry for quite some time. 26:37 It's not the one time answer that I would like to hear about. So I would go like dig deeper. 26:46 And that will lead them to the second question, third question that allows me to know better, but based on the answer that they gave. So they can prepare with AI. I think it's a good idea to practice the question and answers with AI. But when the seasoned HR do the interview, they would dig deeper. So the best thing for them, they practice with AI, but they need to be honest. They need to be themselves and they need to talk everything in a true way with their true colors. 27:23 So that's the best. Because you would keep asking, keep digging beyond their preparation. And then the truth will come out. And that's what you're looking for. 27:34 I see. Okay. How about one person who inspired you to start singing? 27:42 And from a very young age too. 27:45 My favorite singer of all time. 27:48 I think it's Pee Bird for sure. Pee Bird. 27:52 He is so good. I mean, and knowing him in person, he's super kind. And the way that he treats people around him, he has always been sweet. more than kind, more than sweet to everyone. And there are different levels of admiration that I have for him. At a younger age, I sang for him, but I didn't get to really talk to him. But when I get older and I really work with him as an older person, it's different. 28:23 The image of being God, like P. Byrd was like a God for me when I was super young. But now he is like a brother, a super nice brother who can make me feel like very comfortable working with him on the same stage, singing in the same song. And sometimes he would just text. 28:44 The words of encouragement for me when I do stuff, challenging competitions, something like that. 28:50 He's so sweet. 28:51 So sweet. You wouldn't believe. And he's always been like this throughout, throughout. So I love you, people. Always. Yeah. 29:00 So do you still sing? Yes, of course. Yeah. 29:03 Yes. Yes. A lot. And just recently I got to work with him and he has always been the same person I knew. Yeah. 29:09 Yeah. Very lovely. Do you think you have changed as a singer? 29:14 Because, well, for sure you have, because you started from very, very young. And then to this point, so there's a lot of, like, room for you to grow into, like, different directions too. 29:27 Yes. 29:28 I would say the way that I sing actually changed as well. Because as a young age, as a kid, I didn't think so much. When I sang that time on the stage, when I won the competition, I was... 29:43 I was thinking about nothing at all, nothing. 29:46 And I only tried to perform and get it done and go home. Try to nail the high notes? No. No, not even? No, not even that, no. I just want to finish it and go home because I didn't even expect to win. No? At that time, no. Okay. When the crowning moments were... 30:10 I was looking at other kids, like, who's going to win? 30:14 Seriously, you go and check on YouTube. 30:16 I was, like, looking to other kids, and they would go, like... 30:20 Nobody is looking at me. And when my name just popped up, I was like, whoa. So it was so natural that time. But what I didn't have is that the interpretation skills I didn't have. Because I only wanted to sing out. And that's it. But as we grow older, I think there were some kind of skills that is... 30:45 better, I would say. I've improved the interpretation skills because I learned from life. I learned from life of others and I saw like great singers and that kind of interpretation skills and how we really have the soul in the songs. So that's something that changed so much. Yeah. But I like it now. 31:09 i like it now all right well speaking of uh speaking of singing oh okay one song for that little kid from the console one called it has to be kitten yeah that's your like signature and i could not do it that way anymore it was so pure 31:39 And it was so innocent. And my throat is going to explode if I do it like that. I bet you love him, that little note Saran. I will not be able to ever compete with him. 31:54 I would fail. He was so pure and so honest with what he sings. So I like him. I'm a big fan. 32:06 One song that you think is so overrated. Well, maybe not overrated, but overly popular in terms of choosing it in the contest. 32:19 And you would like to tell all the contestants that stop singing this song already. Okay. 32:25 To answer your question first. Okay. It's a song called, And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. 32:34 And every time when I was invited to be the judge and I see the list of the song and this And I'm telling you, I'm not going, I'm like, I start praying, I start praying because this song is so big and it can kill you if you don't do it properly. 32:54 It requires a lot of practice and techniques to be successful in this song. It's not just about yelling. You cannot do that, right? So I would say to all the singing contestants or those who love participating in singing contest, watch out. 33:11 You have to be very careful about this song. 33:15 What would be your advice in choosing a song in order to win? 33:20 That song needs to be in the right balance, I would say. It needs to be you. That's one thing. And the second thing is it needs to be pleasing for the judges or the fans. as well so it's two things in combined you have to strike the right balance if it's a little too much on you people will they may not buy it because they don't know the song maybe they don't get what you're trying to convey yes they cannot connect but if it's a little too much on the popularity of a song i would say that it's it's if it's not you It's not going to be convincing for the audience as well. 33:56 So you need to strike the right balance. But also it needs to show techniques, right? Yes. It needs to be the killing song, especially when you get compared to others. And when the competition goes very tough and the contestants are very good, so you need to be able to show off a little bit of your ability. 34:17 Okay. So are you up to date with all the new songs and all the songs that- Trying. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So what would be the one song that you think best represents the love philosophy of people these days? 34:33 Good one. That song that represents the love of the people these days. 34:37 Yeah, the love philosophy. Because, well, in our time, or in my time, it used to be like devotion, it's like understanding, giving, receiving, stuff like that. But these days, maybe the message has changed. 34:54 Right. But it's not new, I would say. I like the song, the one that he created for Kun Kamala to sing. It's the live and learn. 35:07 Yes, exactly. And that applies to love as well because you really need to love yourself as well and you learn from your experience to be able to love yourself and then you will be able to love others as well. So that's the one that I like best. Every time that I have a chance, I got invited to concerts. I would also consider singing that song all the time because the right message is very strong. I mean, from that song. And every time I sing it, I can feel it from the inside that I'm convinced. 35:38 So I would say that it's live and learn. 35:40 Yeah, I agree. Because when it comes to songs that can teach you or help you succeed in love business these days, of course, learning is one of the best quality because there's a lot of diversity these days. There's no one or two patterns of love anymore. It's not like in the past. But right now, we cannot even guess what kind of love this is. And maybe it it might look like it would not work from our experience, but it could work for a lot of people, for a lot of people like somebody else. 36:19 Yeah. So if you just keep learning, like live and learn, that would work. Learning is a love for yourself and love for others. Yes. Right. Okay. One great song that you love singing because of its melody, but you actually hate the message. 36:39 Like music-wise, thumbs up, but message or lyrics, boo. 36:45 I'm not sure if you've heard that song before, but you're going to hate it. 36:50 Okay, let's see. 36:53 I will sing it. Okay. And if it sounds unbearable to you, please say stop. Okay. Okay. Okay. 37:02 I like to eat bread or bread. I also like to eat bread. If anyone comes to love me, there must be something else. 37:22 I will not continue because the second part is gonna be even worse. It's even worse. 37:28 I have heard that song. Yes, I have. 37:31 I have a lot of people, I think. 37:33 But it sounds so beautiful, right? 37:36 If you don't know Thai language, you would love that song. you would have thought that it's a love song, right? And actually, a good friend of mine actually sang that song originally. So that's the reason why I knew the song. Do you know who wrote the song? I don't know the writer, but I knew the singer. So I told her... 37:58 you cannot make money out of that song for sure. You cannot perform in events because people at that time, you know, in events, people would like be eating. I know. And who puts cockroach in the second verse of the song, like at the very top. No way. 38:14 Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, she's good. 38:17 She's good. 38:17 Yeah. 38:17 But it's actually, it's huge on internet. Very. Yeah. People love it. It's viral. I think now she would come back to me and say, it's like, I make money out of it. 38:28 So who knows, right? Things have changed actually. 38:34 Let's come back to your book and your experience of 20 years as an HR executive. You've been in the business for so long. 38:47 Can you tell us the latest trends? I want to know because I guess since everything is changing. The world has changed. People have changed. HR must have changed along with the people too. So is there any new trends, new techniques, new PR philosophy that you want to share with us today that this is actually happening right now in corporate world? Right. I would say it's all about AI. 39:17 Yeah, because it's very big right now. AI is everywhere. AI adoption, AI is in every, every single bit of work right now. And people keep on talking about it. And even the senior management, they need to learn about the AI. And I think everyone, everyone. But in the same time, I feel like it's a little too much for the employees from time to, I mean, at a certain level. You mean like it could be overwhelming for them to catch up and learn? 39:49 It's overwhelming because if the company only do the talk, it's more like the threat or the employee might feel like they're being threatened. 40:02 Because if you don't point out the way out for them, how to work with AI, that's gonna be a big problem for the employees as well. So AI is very important. You need to really learn and work with AI. 40:17 But in the same time, the company needs to be able to show the way of how. 40:23 or equip the employees to to know how to work with AI or else it's going to be like you are leaving them in the dark and they don't know where to go. 40:33 And the thing that is left with them is the feeling of fear. It's not healthy for the organization. And people would start talking about like, I would replace you. But in reality, if you know and if you learn It's actually a great companion. It's a great partner and it saves time for you. You can be more efficient and productive at work and save your time to do something else, to spend time with your family, your dogs and everything. 41:03 So it's very beneficial. So the key word is balance. 41:08 So it's big, it's important, but make sure that you don't create that kind of scary image of AI to the people. So that's going to be my message. 41:19 I agree because if we feel like we are threatened all the time, we cannot do anything. We cannot achieve or accomplish anything at work because we are living with fear basically. 41:32 Yeah. So if you point out AI, you have to tell them what? 41:37 Yeah. You have to teach them. 41:39 Exactly. Exactly. Okay. 41:40 Not just, okay, start using it and use it well. Yeah. Yeah. Make more money with AI today. But how? But how? You're not telling them. Okay. Yeah. So, If not technology, okay, we cut off the technology and we are left with only people. What kind of change have you seen for the past 20 years? Have people changed in the workplace and how big of a change have you observed? 42:12 Yes, I think there are lots of change, especially when it comes to psychological safety of the people at work. 42:20 I can sense and I heard lots of feedbacks from friends, from colleagues, and not only the friends in the same organization, but outside my organization, those who are the office workers, they feel so much about the psychological safety because they feel the uncertainty in the work and they feel so... So we're coming back to fear again. Yes, yes, yes. We would sense more in today's world because maybe once again AI and also some kind of the external environment that it's not so friendly because if you think about the war, you think about the economy, right? 43:04 So there are lots of factors outside that make people feel like the safety is not there. 43:09 And when they come to work, the psychological safety is still not there as well because most of the people, they feel like they cannot talk to peers. They cannot talk to boss. They cannot talk to the senior management. They feel fear. Yeah, so that's one thing. The other thing is the generation. We talk so much about generation gap. We talk about the differences in generations, but I think We personally, I would say, I don't want to encourage people to try to fight with one another based on generation, because actually understanding generations is something that should be useful. 43:52 It should be useful to really understand each other and work together better. That's the concept. But now people in the... 44:02 work environment, they try to use our generation as something that they used to blame each other. 44:09 I'm not sure if you have ever heard... We hold that against each other. Yeah. Have you ever heard someone try to give someone compliments with the generation? For example, like, oh, because you're a Gen X, so you're so great. No. We hardly heard it, right? What we always hear would be, because you're Gen X, you are a dinosaur. 44:32 You are Gen Z, you are Dec-1 soon. Yeah, and you are not responsible. Exactly. And you have no patience. Instead. 44:40 Instead of trying to work together or find the opportunities to work together, you try to fight with one another and attack one another based on the generation. So that's the two things that are quite big. I think it's quite big in the work environment or the corporate world right now. 45:00 okay let's uh tackle some of uh some more of the problems that i think are pretty universal to like every everyone everywhere uh for example of course we have heard of like i hate mondays but now a lot of people are scared of sundays too so actually there's a word sunday scary yeah symptom yeah it's a real thing now I think so. Yeah. What do you think about this problem? 45:30 How do we get rid of it? 45:33 I don't want people to blame on days. 45:36 Don't put a blame on days. If Monday is a holiday, you would still be happy, right? But if you really dig down into your soul and what you think, it's not the day that you hate. 45:49 It's the work that you hate. It's actually the environment that you don't like. It's the boss that you hate and the colleagues that you don't want to meet. So... 46:00 let's not put the blame on the days, but it's actually the fear that you have with the environment that you don't want to face. 46:09 I would encourage all the friends outside to really start thinking and digging down into your thoughts. 46:18 What really is the factor that makes you feel like you have that kind of depression when it comes to Monday? So if you cannot find it out, it's going to be very challenging for you always to really get out of that kind of overwhelming feelings when it comes to Monday or even Sunday evening. You start to feel like, oh, I'm dying, I'm dying. 46:42 Yeah, because I know tomorrow I have to go back to work, which is... 46:47 Of course, it's the place that I don't want to say it out loud, but I know inside that I hate that place. I hate the work. I hate the people. So maybe if this problem persists, you have to do something about it. Yeah. But again, a lot of people cannot because they have a lot of burdens, like financial burdens. They have responsibilities. For any reason, they cannot leave, but they have to. 47:15 Stay. 47:16 Yeah. So I would try to put it this way. For those who still have opportunity to choose, especially students, I would say go and try. 47:32 I mean, create that kind of opportunity for yourself to really get a chance to try, for example, in the internship to avoid the feeling of having nowhere to go, or this is the only choice that I have. I really must work here because I don't have other choices. 47:50 Let's not do that. If you have the kind of opportunity to choose, let's do it. Go to do the internship somewhere, try the jobs. So you really get to try the job content. that you might like or you thought that you like it, but actually you don't like it in reality. That's the first one. For the second group, for those who are already in the job, you might be feeling like, I'm still like neutral with the job right now. Should I do something? I would say yes. 48:22 You need to find the option for yourself as well. You mean like second job? Yes. Like, yeah. Yes. Geek on the side? Exactly. Because you don't know. You can never know. There could be all of a sudden someone, your enemy, just popped up in the office to try to destroy your days at work. So I think... 48:45 you need an option in life as well, something that you have the passion with as the option. But for the third one who feel like so sad right now, I mean, you don't know where to go, you don't find ways, I would say, It might be a little too late, honestly, because I would encourage you to start thinking as a number one and number two first. But if you're in the group three, find the root cause. Really, go and find the root cause. 49:15 Why? 49:17 whether or not it's controllable factor or if it's uncontrollable factors. If it's something that you can control, you can make change, do it. And if it's like more on the uncontrollable factors, I think that's where you can assess the risk and you might need to consider something. Don't stay there. For example, if it's the toxic people, horrible bosses, If that's the case, I think you might need to consider something else. Yeah. 49:47 Yeah. Get out. 49:48 Yeah. 49:48 Get out of there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what has been your experience with Gen Zers? Is it true what they say that Gen Zers are very impatient, that they're very irresponsible, that they lack social skill or they like... 50:09 Is it true for you? 50:11 For me personally, maybe I'm lucky. 50:15 I don't have the kind of experience. 50:19 Most of the Gen Z that I met, They surprised me in a positive way. 50:25 They're so talented. They have their own way of thinking. They have their confidence. 50:30 And I really admire how they have the kind of courage to come to me and tell me the feedback that they have. 50:41 P, let's do this. P, let's do that. And maybe you're not quite confident in this, so let's try the other way. Something like that. So I really like it. But I also hear lots of maybe not so good stuff about Gen Z. But let me put it this way, once again. Generation... 51:04 has nothing to do with it, right? No. No. No. Yeah, because we can find plenty of Gen X or Gen Y who is responsible and impatient. Exactly. 51:14 Same thing. And I think every one of us, the older people, we used to be Gen C before in our times, right? Think about the time when we just graduated and we were the job hoppers. 51:26 We change jobs and we brag about the technology, knowledge, those kind of stuff that actually Gen Z these days, actually they are doing the same thing, but the context is different. The technology has changed, something like that. So no, let's not put a blame on that, but try to find ways to really work with one another because you know what? 51:47 In the future, of course, the labor market will be filled with Gen Z. 51:54 And we need to work with them, of course. It's impossible to really say no to all the Gen Zs. And we are saying that, really, can we remove all the Gen Zs from the labor market? Impossible. Impossible. They're the future too. Exactly. So they are the future. So let's be realistic with it and try to find the ways to work with one another and be kind because they are our products as well. 52:20 So that's my thought. 52:22 Another thing I want to ask you about is another big question for a job seeker. So freshly graduated and a lot of Gen Zers, of course, they cannot find jobs that they want. That's for one. But any job at all, that's the real problem, too, because they lack experience. 52:43 But they just graduated. So how and where did they get experience from, right? 52:50 how do we help them prepare better for the job seeking experience? How do they prepare their documents and portfolio, anything at all that they can just show to the employer that I'm worthy too? Because if they don't have like a big portfolio or zero work experience, 53:13 What else can they show to get a job? Okay. I think it's important that you need to start with the right attitude. That both of you, I mean both, means the Gen Z side and the organization side. 53:28 But the key thing is that you really need to understand why should each side choose one another, right? From the applicant side, the Gen Z, when you know that you don't have the experience, so the next question is how to create, to have, or to have that kind of experience. So it might not be the direct experience in the workplace, but like I said, go to do internship. 53:56 Or try to explore or create something that people in the same competition wouldn't have. 54:03 Maybe join some competition. Maybe you practice or create or invent something. 54:09 by yourself and that's already the portfolio or excel in something. Create that competitive advantage for the organization when they look at you and they say, wow, this is something that we hardly see, right? So that's something that you could do. Ask yourself. I think I would encourage all the students or the Nong Nong to really go and do the SWOT analysis of yourself. Start with the strengths. 54:36 What is your strengths? Is it differentiating from others? 54:41 If it's a yes, it's differentiating. So let's build upon that thing. So let's do that. And also do S-W-O-N-T. You do it, you do self-analysis, and then you'll be wiser. You will see what to do and what to be built more to make yourself better. 55:02 more interesting in the eye of the employers. So I think that's something that I like to say. 55:08 Yeah, yeah. 55:11 I mean, the framework is already there. SWOT. If you do SWOT and you take time to actually talk to yourself, reflect on what you have done or what could potentially be your achievement. Yeah. Just take the time to do that. 55:28 Yes. 55:28 Right. Self-reflection is very important as long as you don't try to overrate yourself. 55:34 And I love how you say that you don't have to wait for other people to give you opportunity. 55:39 You can just create opportunities for yourself. Invention is in your hand. You need to start it. It can be a very small project, but the journey that you try to create something, it's already a story to tell. To tell to the HR or the employers. Anyone would enjoy your story if it's real. 55:59 And free applications are like Everywhere left and right for you to choose from. Just use all those free stuff to create something for yourself. Okay Yeah, I think that's doable for a lot of people who are like see no ways that you can like this is going to be the portfolio that I want to show to the HR of my dream company. Exactly. You can just start doing that. Do it. Just do it. All right. We have been talking for almost an hour. 56:31 Really? And I have to say that I really admire your English, because you have said before that you, this is your first English interview. Thank you. And you kind of have like, you don't use English on a regular basis, like talking in real life, except for work. But how, how can you train yourself to be able to speak at this level? Through struggles. 56:55 Struggles? Yes. 56:58 Actually, I started my first English lesson at 11 years old. 57:03 Poh Ha. 57:05 Which is quite late, I guess, right? 57:07 Super late compared to other friends. Kindergarten even. Yes, yes. And I started learning ABC at 11 years old. I still remember the time my mom and dad took me to a cram school to learn English at Poh Ha in Bangkok. And I got rejected because, you know, my English is nothing because I cannot really... 57:32 compared to other students at that time. So they said no to me. And they offered me to take the class with the kindergarten. 57:40 And I did. Actually, I did. Really? And then what happened was that I was surrounded by all the kindergarten screaming, playing. And I was like, whoa, mom, dad, let's go home. Let's go back to our traditional way of learning English. So yes, that's one. 57:59 The other big jump for me was the time. 58:05 It's like a struggle for me, big struggle, because, you know, at high school, I used to be a hua maa. Like the, I mean, the big fish in the pond, in Nakhon Sawa, in the provincial area, you used to be so cold. My English is better than like the rest, right? 58:23 Yeah, because small pond, as you said, right? 58:26 Yeah, but then when you came to the Akson Saad, it's like you were... 58:33 surrounded by the devils like in the ocean of geniuses so you became the small super small fish and people like go on and talk in english very frequently because you're gonna have friends those who like went to the states in the afs and it was like what what am i doing here And I really need to fight, I mean to really motivate myself to improve my English skills. How do you up your game? I went... 59:06 I went straight to Ajaan, one of the Ajaans, and I said, Ajaan, I had no choice now. I hate Spanish. I tried Spanish, and it's a funny story. I tried Spanish, and I took maybe the exam out of 20. I got 16. I was so happy, but I was the lowest in the class already. I said, no, Ajaan, I'm going to withdraw from Spanish, but... English is my only option. 59:37 What have I got to do?" And Ajahn handed me one of the English tutorials, something like that. And she said, stick with the book. Make sure that you really read every page and come to me anytime. 59:52 And I finished the book. I always see her. 59:56 Ajahn Chirantara, I still remember. 60:00 After I got like a pass to the English major, I was so happy. And I went back to her like, Ajahn, you saved my life. I finally got to the English major. So it's because of you. And from there, my English improved gradually. And I got to really learn with all the, maybe the, I would say the other gods of English. Ajahn in the Axon. So that's why my English got improved. 60:27 Yeah. I think that's a great lesson for us to learn. Because sometimes when you cannot do something super well, it's because you are doing too many things at a time. And you choose to cut out the other things that you don't need to focus on and just pick one. Which, namely, is English in this case. So you just go for what you really want to do best and just... let go of other things. Right. 60:58 You're right. All right. Just put more than 110%, 115% into what you love. If language or English is your thing, just give it. Like the first priority. 61:12 Exactly. Exactly. And language is the skill that you can improve if you really put yourself out there and you practice. Because even though you feel like you're in a bad position in English, your English proficiency is not so good, put yourself in the environment. 61:30 and listen and speak and read and do everything, trust me, it's going to improve. It's going to improve no matter big or small. You're going to get better. 61:41 Wow, this is so encouraging for a lot of people who I'm sure are watching this episode and they'll be like, oh, you know what, are so fluent. I want to be able to talk like him. 61:52 I want to be more fluent, actually, but this is the best I can do. 61:56 Yeah, you're doing great. Thank you. Yeah, and I appreciate your time today. And, well, I have to encourage you to go to any bookstore. Is it still on sale in any bookstore, I believe? Yes. Yeah, and get your copy of Pinot Sadan and, yeah, Be Friends with Chachani. Chachani. She's great. She's great. She's a lot of fun, too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I want to ask you also about... 62:21 your one word or one paragraph from the book that you think is the most significant. 62:32 Wow. 62:34 Wow. Can you pick one for us? Let me think. Yeah. 62:38 Or one message. 62:41 I think It's Carpedium. It's hidden. 62:46 It's hidden. It's not written in the book directly, but it's almost in every chapter of the book. 62:55 So you believe in Carpedium? 62:57 Yes, personally. Grab the moment. Yes, grab the moment. Because Chachani, even though it's very funny, she's very cunning, The bottom line and her behavior would also reflect Capetian. She does everything she can. 63:14 Because at the back of the mind, Her and I believe that times are running out. Days are numbered. So we do everything we can in your way. For Chachani, it's going to be a cunning way. It's going to be a funny way. But for me, I'm going to give my best to everything that I do because it's not about the fame. It's not about reputation, but it's about the time. 63:39 You know that you are good in something and there is a need out there. 63:44 requiring you, asking you to do it. So, it's the intersection between the two needs already. So, let's do it. Times are running out. You make time. If you want to do something, make time for it, whether or not You are ready. I mean, there is no ready, ready. So just do it. Make time if you want it. So Chechnya is always like that as well in a funny way. But for me, it's a little different. I'm a good person. 64:13 I love her. And I love you for being here with us today. Thank you. And of course, I want to ask you about your comedy, your most favorite word in any language at all. 64:22 I would actually say... 64:26 Present. Present. Present. 64:31 It might sound very, very normal, but trust me one thing, this is the best time for me, for everyone. 64:44 Present time is the best. Even if you ask me now, when is the best time in your life, I would say it's now. 64:52 Because At this age of mine, I think it's a time that strategy and execution shake hands. 65:03 You have the wisdom and you also have the ability to do things. You have the physical ability to do things. So now it's the best. 65:15 and present for everyone, it should be the best. So yeah, that's the khamnidi for me. Wow. I love that word. So thank you so much. Thank you. I have a lot of fun. 65:27 Thank you. Thanks for having me.