Real Crime with Adam Shand

Aubrey Maurice Broughill, a career armed robber, better known as the Beanie Bandit, died in February 1999 under mysterious circumstances. His corpse was found in a dam on the Victorian border, hundreds of miles from his last reported location, minus his testicles. In the first of a two-part series, Broughill’s daughter, Ilsa, and her friend, Amanda, share the results of their investigation into his death, which has raised questions about whether foul play could have been involved. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In March 1993, career criminals Archie Butterly and Peter Gibb blasted their way out of the Melbourne Remand Centre using smuggled explosives, with the help of prison officer Heather Parker, who had become romantically involved with Gibb. Six days later beside the Goulburn River in Victoria’s high country. Gibb and Parker were captured. Butterly was found dead, with a single bullet wound to his head. For Scott Bell, Butterly’s death was a massive relief. In 1992, before the jail break, Butterly took this average suburban bloke hostage. For the first time, Scott recounts that terrifying experience and the aftermath that he still deals with today. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Australia's notorious tobacco kingpin Kaz Hamad is serving life in an Iraqi prison. But explosive allegations suggest he was brutally tortured, and Iraqi authorities doctored photographs to conceal his injuries. Australian intelligence helped secure his arrest. So what did our authorities know, and when?In this episode of From the Desk, Adam Shand examines the disturbing allegations and asks, 'Should Australia cooperate with countries that practise torture to bring dangerous criminals to justice? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Calvin and Nicole were lovers who balanced their love for each other and their two children, with the heroin addiction that dominated their lives. This is not a glamorous crime yarn, it’s the story of feeding a voracious beast. It’s about compromises, crimes, and the shameful acts that must be committed to survive. Calvin’s death, when it came, was a kind of relief for Nicole, a chance to restore family relationships and to deal with her own addiction. In this honest conversation with Adam, Nicole does not make excuses but provides insight into life, death, and surviving Calvin. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On January 31, 1971, 15-year-old Rosalyn Nolte left her home in Hamilton, Victoria, to walk her dog. She never returned.Rosalyn was brutally murdered by two 18-year-old men, Christopher Russell Lowery and Charles King. Both were convicted of murder and sentenced to death, but their sentences were commuted and both eventually walked free.For a young Phil Dunn, who was part of the defence team, it was a trial he would never forget.More than 50 years later, Phil joins Adam Shand to revisit the case that has haunted his professional memory.He reflects on the challenges of defending the accused, the extraordinary pressures inside and outside the courtroom, the death penalty and the difficult question of whether justice was ultimately served. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Adam is creating a new podcast series called The Real Chopper, and he wants your stories. Today, From the Desk, Adam asks how the late Mark Brandon Read created such enduring myths about his life and why people were so willing to believe them, or to suspend their disbelief.Thirteen years after his death, his books continue to sell, and his legend grows ever larger. He’s created a place for himself in crime history alongside Ned Kelly that his true story does not justify. What in the Australian psyche did Read understand when weaving his tales, and did he have an unspoken agreement with his audience? If you have a story about Chopper email me here See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She lived a life of drugs, crime and prison, married to a major heroin dealer and surrounded by the trappings of wealth. But behind the money and glamour, Elizabeth — not her real name — knew little of love, safety or happiness. When her husband suddenly vanished, presumed murdered, her world collapsed. The money disappeared, addiction tightened its grip, and Elizabeth spiralled towards rock bottom. Yet somehow, after decades trapped in a destructive cycle of addiction and crime, she found the strength to turn her life around. It's a remarkable journey through addiction, loss and despair to redemption, faith and the power of hope — and a reminder that even the most damaged lives can be rebuilt. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For two years, Queensland police officer Jason Somerville lived a dangerous double life. Under the assumed identity of Michael Bates, he posed as a heroin dealer, infiltrated Brisbane's drug trade, befriended hardened criminals and earned their trust to gather evidence against them. He even went undercover in a police cell to obtain a confession from an accused double murderer. But living a lie comes at a price. When the operations ended, Somerville discovered that leaving his undercover identity behind was far harder than adopting it. The constant danger, deception and paranoia had taken a psychological toll. His marriage eventually collapsed, and the effects of his undercover years followed him long after the operations were over. Jason discusses his new book, Undercurrent: The Hidden Cost of Going Undercover, revealing the close calls, moral dilemmas and personal sacrifices involved in infiltrating Australia's criminal underworld. https://artists.australianculturalfund.org.au/s/project/a2EMn00000k7A78 See…

The alleged attack on Helen Haines has shocked Australia and raised urgent questions about the safety of our elected representatives. How do we protect politicians while keeping them accessible to the communities they serve? Adam Shand examines the threatening language poisoning public debate and reflects on his own approach to handling vile comments on social media. With the accused’s motive still to be established, this is a call to consider the conversations we create—and our responsibility when anger becomes an invitation to violence. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Former police officer Amanda Schultz has spent years questioning the official finding that her father, Detective Inspector Geoffrey “Whit” Whitford, took his own life. The highly respected Whitford was found dead from a gunshot wound at a remote South Australian beach in October 1981. His death was officially ruled a suicide by police without a formal coronial inquest, backed by a sealed 30-year coronial report. Whitford led a covert organised crime and drug taskforce targeting the marijuana and heroin trade. Amanda discusses the evidence she believes doesn’t fit the accepted account, what her father may have known through his police work—and why she continues to fight for a fresh investigation into his death. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ivan Milat murdered seven young backpackers in the Belanglo State Forest. But were those his only victims? Investigative journalist Camille Bianchi joins Adam Shand to discuss her gripping new podcast, Back to the Wall, which explores disturbing allegations linking Australia's most notorious serial killer to the dark underworld of Sydney's Kings Cross. In the 1980s and 1990s, vulnerable streetkids gathered at a place known simply as the Wall. Some disappeared. Others survived with stories of predators, powerful men and secrets that have remained buried for decades. As a New South Wales inquiry examines allegations about Milat's activities before his arrest, Bianchi tracks down witnesses whose accounts challenge the accepted history. Were opportunities to investigate serious crimes missed? Who knew what was happening? And how much of the truth can still be uncovered? A confronting conversation about missing children, institutional failures and the survivors who are finally finding their voices. Follow and…

A photograph, a bare wedding finger and a possible message. Adam Shand examines Snezana Wood’s first reported public appearance since her husband Sam was charged with domestic violence offences. Is this a declaration of independence, or are we reading too much into the picture? Beyond the tabloid signals lie serious questions about prosecution, family support and access to justice. Wood denies the allegations, which remain unproven. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part Two of Kyle Madden's story, he returns to jail to find a darker more brutal environment where the old rules are breaking down. He must form strong bonds with jail gangs and fighting for survival becomes the norm. Once free again, it's only a matter of time before he's back inside, especially as his offending becomes more serious and violent. He comes to place no value on life until the loss of his unborn son and he finally begins to take responsibility for his choices. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A special double episode on the journey of former Sydney criminal Kyle Madden from an underworld heavy to a new life beyond crime. In Part One, Kyle is jailed for a home invasion that results in the shooting of an innocent bystander. After his first stint, jail becomes a revolving door for Kyle as family and personal relationships break down. In custody, Kyle aligns himself with heavy crooks and begins building his criminal network. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Christa Pike survived Tennessee’s attempt to execute her. Should the state be allowed to try again? From the Desk, Adam Shand examines the legal precedent, the English legend of mercy after a failed hanging, and the moral limits of capital punishment. Even if another execution attempt is lawful, does that make it right? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When police officer David Raymond walked into the darkness hunting a killer, he often had just one partner besides him, a partner who couldn’t speak but whose instincts David trusted with his life. For 26 years, David worked with police dogs in Far North Queensland. But one dog would come to define his career: Vader, a jet-black German Shepherd who tracked killers, confronted armed offenders, searched for the missing and helped save lives. In this episode of Real Crime, David Raymond takes us inside the extraordinary world of police dog operations: the danger, the humour, the psychological toll and the remarkable bond that develops when a man and a dog repeatedly walk into danger together. It’s a story about courage, loyalty and an almost instinctive trust between two partners and the heartbreaking reality that even the strongest partnerships eventually come to an end. David Raymond and Vader: a police officer, a police dog, and the unbreakable bond that brought them both home. See omnystudio.com/listener…

Long before Roberta Williams became one of the most recognisable names in Melbourne’s gangland story, she was Roberta Merciecaa, a rebellious 15-year-old growing up around Frankston.Lee McIntosh knew her then. As a youth worker, Lee worked with young people dealing with broken homes, trauma and uncertain futures. She understood them because she had lived through her own family upheaval. But Lee came to Real Crime with a mystery of her own. She had never met her father and wanted to find the man who had been missing from her life for decades. In this episode, Lee takes us back to the teenage years of the girl who would become Roberta Williams, revealing a fascinating prequel to the Underbelly story. And then we embark on a very different investigation: the search for Lee’s long-lost father. Two stories about family, identity and the strange turns a life can take and one question Lee has waited a lifetime to answer. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Three-year-old Cheryl Grimmer vanished from Fairy Meadow beach at Wollongong in 1970. A teenager later told police he had abducted and killed her. Decades on, he was charged with murder—but the case ended when a judge ruled that his police interview could not be used at trial. He pleaded not guilty, and no jury reached a verdict. After a tireless campaign for justice by Cheryl's family, the NSW Director of Public Prosecutions agreed to review the court ruling but recently upheld the decision to exclude the confession of the alleged killer. It was a devastating blow but the family fights on. They are now demanding an independent review of this decision and why evidence from new witnesses has not been investigated by police. In this From the Desk, Adam Shand asks how a family finds answers when the evidence at the heart of a case cannot be heard in court. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Victoria, with the support of her new partner, Grant, reports that the father of her children has raped and sexually assaulted her. Victoria summons the courage to go through the three-year process that led to his conviction and a 13-year prison sentence. Another woman is inspired to bring charges against the perpetrator for crimes committed against her. Victoria has waived her right to anonymity to tell this story in the hope of encouraging other women to liberate themselves from abusive partners. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jeff Maher had a stellar career as an investigator, including a 15-year stint as a detective senior sergeant in the Victoria Police homicide squad. His crew worked on some of the most high-profile murder cases in the state’s history, which included locking up a serial killer. Peter Dupas. Jeff also worked in arson and explosives investigations. In this revealing interview, he discusses investigative methods and how he dealt with the stresses of working on horrific murder cases and dealing with the loved ones while maintaining a laser focus on professionalism. He also talks about giving back at the end of his career, training detectives at the Victoria Police Academy and a new role helping to train police in Cambodia investigating homicide and child protection cases. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Debbie Fahey’s death in a Melbourne motel room in 1981 was treated as a heroin overdose. But more than four decades later, troubling questions remain.Multiple syringes. Four foils of heroin. No obvious heat source to prepare the drug. And a strange telegram that appeared to explain Debbie’s state of mind.Then there is the man in her life: Alistair Farquhar "Sandy" MacRae — later convicted of four murders — who identified Debbie’s body and described himself as her fiancé.Were these simply the circumstances surrounding a tragic overdose? Or was somebody trying to make Debbie’s death look like one? In this special From the Desk, Adam Shand examines the anomalies in the original investigation and makes a direct appeal to anyone who knew Debbie, MacRae, or Melbourne’s drug scene in 1981.Someone may still know what happened inside that motel room. After 45 years, it’s time to talk. Listen to the full epsidoe with Debbie's daughter, Des here See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Like thousands of young Australians in the 1980s, Patrick McKenzie became addicted to heroin and found his way to Sydney's King Cross joining a sub-culture of drug users who financed their habit by committing petty crime. It took five days in jail for him to begin to see a life beyond drug addiction but the road to recovery was difficult, including multiple stints in rehab, relapses and the painful restoration of personal relationships. Patrick takes Adam Shand through his story of self-destruction and redemption. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Was Debbie Fahey's death really a murder? In 1981, Deborah “Debbie” Fahey died from a heroin overdose; her death was apparently another tragedy of Melbourne’s drug scene. But was there more to the story? In an earlier episode, former detective Noel Ashby identified convicted killer Alistair Farquhar MacRae as a possible suspect in a series of heroin deaths during the 1980s—deaths that may have been made to look like suicides or accidental overdoses. After hearing that episode, Debbie’s daughter, Des, contacted us. Together, we uncovered an extraordinary connection: MacRae had been Debbie’s boyfriend. In this episode, Des tells the deeply personal story of the mother she lost and the disturbing questions that have remained unanswered for more than four decades. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sixteen years after the death of Carl Williams, the Melbourne gangland war continues to resonate as Australia’s most famous underworld war. In this week’s From the Desk episode, Adam Shand reflects on why the Underbelly war continues to fascinate the public even as the death toll in Sydney‘s gangland conflicts continues to rise. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part Two of Real Crime: Live at the Stanley Pub, Adam Shand sits down with Daniel Saunders — the man who discovered a glitch in his bank account that seemingly gave him access to unlimited money. What followed was four months of outrageous spending, new friends, gambling, luxury hotels and a life that spiralled completely out of control. But eventually, Daniel did something almost as extraordinary as finding the glitch: he tried to give the money back. Daniel tells Adam what really happened, why he ultimately turned himself in, what prison was like — and whether, knowing everything he knows now, he'd do it all again. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A special double episode this week, Adam Shand is taking Real Crime on the road with Dan Saunders of The Glitch podcast visiting historic Stanley in northeast Victoria for a live event at the Stanley pub, in association with Turnip Media. In this first episode, Adam tells how he got into crime writing during Melbourne’s gangland war and recounts some of his near-death experiences See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week I posted about disturbing revelations involving Australia’s Family Court. I was inundated with messages from women who believe the system failed them—and left their children in danger. In this episode of From the Desk, I examine claims that protective mothers are being ignored, disbelieved, or financially broken by a process they entered to keep their children safe. I ask whether allegations of abuse are being properly investigated, whether children’s voices are being heard, and whether an expensive and secretive system is sufficiently accountable when the consequences of getting it wrong can last a lifetime. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For more than 20 years, Adam Shand has asked detectives across Australia: has a psychic ever genuinely helped solve a crime? In this episode, Adam speaks with Richard Saunders from Australian Skeptics about the $100,000 prize awaiting anyone who can prove they possess psychic abilities under controlled conditions. The money is real—but can anybody pass the test? Together, they examine the claims made by psychics, the techniques that can make their predictions seem convincing, and why families and investigators may turn to the supernatural when conventional leads have run out. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jamie Burchell once made his living selling drugs and he was very good at it but he paid for it with years in maximum security and a struggle with anxiety and depression. Now free and living alone in the bush, the man once dubbed the Craigslist drug dealer speaks candidly about fatherhood, regret. self-sufficiency and his chance to build a life beyond crime See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

More than one in three Australians—37 per cent—say they would support bringing back the death penalty. But supporting an execution in principle is very different from carrying one out.In today’s From the Desk, Adam asks the uncomfortable question: if the state is permitted to take a life in our name, who must bear the burden of actually doing it? Would those demanding the ultimate punishment be prepared to enter the execution chamber, carry out the sentence—and live with having taken another person’s life? Follow Adam on Facebook here See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

He was dubbed the “Wolf of Whiteman Street," a Crown Casino high roller whose extravagant lifestyle allegedly included lavish parties, VIP treatment, and extraordinary spending. But behind the glamour, police allege Sy Giang Nguyen was funding his lifestyle through a multimillion-dollar fraud against the charity where he worked. Nguyen is facing hundreds of charges, and the allegations remain before the courts. Herald Sun senior reporter Seb Costello joins Adam Shand to unravel the extraordinary story of Nguyen’s rise, the world he inhabited, and the allegations that brought it crashing down. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ralph Carr was sentenced to six years in prison, with a four-year non-parole period, for two rapes and a sexual assault. For many, the punishment feels profoundly inadequate. In this edition of From the Desk, Adam Shand examines why the judge could not sentence according to public anger alone—and how precedent, proportionality, comparable cases and Carr’s personal circumstances shaped the result. He also asks what could happen if other complainants came forward and Carr were convicted of further offences. Could a new sentence keep him behind bars for considerably longer? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Alistair Farquhar "Sandy" MacRae is a quadruple convicted murderer who killed without mercy. At 77, MacRae is eligible for parole after completing his jail sentence in South Australia but questions remain whether he killed other people, including women who worked in massage parlours in Melbourne in the 1970s. Former Victoria Police assistant commissioner Noel Ashby dealt with MacRae and tells Adam Shand he might have got away with several other murders and should not be released, despite finishing his jail time and his advanced age. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Australian Simon Carman is facing the possibility of the death penalty over the alleged murder of 17-year-old Tunchanok Donhomla in Thailand. Sydney lawyer Tony Taouk joins Adam Shand to examine the case, explain how the Thai legal system operates and assess whether a death sentence is likely to be imposed—and, crucially, whether it would ever be carried out. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this bonus epsiode From the Desk Adam asks the question. Australia is getting tougher on youth crime — longer sentences, stricter bail laws and “adult time for adult crime.” But with youth detention costing more than $1 billion a year and around 85% of young offenders returning to the system, is locking kids up really making us safer? Adam Shand looks at the disturbing crimes driving public anger, the teenagers being recruited by organised crime, and why tougher punishment alone may be failing to stop the next generation of offenders. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Former Australian Federal Police commander Glen McEwen spent 35 years confronting organised crime, terrorism and international crises. His new book, Crime, Chaos and Controversy, takes readers behind the scenes of operations including the Bali bombings and the dramatic Thai cave rescue. Glen joins Adam Shand to reveal what happens when police must make life-and-death decisions amid uncertainty—and the personal cost of leading when the world is watching. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Recent arrests in Melbourne of individuals alleged to be connected to offshore organised crime bosses have raised hopes police may be turning the tide on the arson campaign that has beset Melbourne. Adam talks with Detective Inspector Graham Banks of Victoria Police’s Eclipse taskforce. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Northern Territory’s homicide rate is more than five times the national rate, while communities including Alice Springs and Katherine experience extraordinary levels of assault and domestic violence. Adam Shand draws on his own experience working in Nhulunbuy more than 40 years ago to examine the role of alcohol, disadvantage and intergenerational trauma — and asks the question: after decades of interventions and promises, what has actually been proven to reduce the violence? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For 25 years, former NSW prison officer Simone Patterson lived with the consequences of sexual harassment and assault by a male colleague. Then she decided to pursue justice — and succeeded. Simone joins Adam Shand to explain why she waited, what it took to go to court, and what finally being heard meant to her. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the 1970s, Peter Vaitos was one of Australia’s most notorious sexual predators, known as the “Silver Gun Rapist.” But behind the headlines, the crimes and the prison sentence was a family forced to live with what he had done. In this episode of Adam Shand, talks with Vaitos’ daughter, Stacey, about growing up with a father capable of terrible crimes, the moment she began to understand who he really was, and the impact his offending had on her life and her family. It’s a deeply personal conversation about shame, forgiveness, loyalty, anger and the difficult truth that the families of offenders can become victims too. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Using the allegations against convicted rapist Ralph Carr as a starting point, Adam Shand explores the hidden power imbalance at the heart of sexual abuse. Drawing on conversations with another alleged victim who feared Carr’s influence, this episode examines how authority, reputation and fear can silence victims for years—and why understanding that imbalance is essential if we want justice to prevail. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Paul Terrance Mallinder was found guilty of the 1985 shooting of Kay Nesbit, in Melbourne’s eastern suburbs. For more than four decades, he has maintained that he did not commit this crime that left an innocent woman disfigured. In this rare and confronting interview, Mallinder tells his story in his own words. He speaks about the investigation that led to his conviction, life behind bars, and why he believes the justice system got it wrong. This is not an endorsement of Mallinder’s claims. It is an opportunity to hear directly from one of Australia’s most controversial convicted criminals. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part 3 of his interview, former Victorian Armed Robbery Squad detective Steve Beanland details his battle with Victoria Police over allegations he made regarding sexual misconduct at the Police Academy.Faced with a lack of support from the police hierarchy, Beanland goes to war with his former employers and finds himself in custody facing serious criminal charges. Over several years, he struggles to clear his name and to recover from bipolar disorder and depression. Follow Adam on Facebook here Support lifeline here See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From the Desk, Adam examines two of Melbourne’s most haunting child disappearances: Karmein Chan and Bung Siriboon. Many believe they’re connected because both victims were young girls from Asian families. But does the evidence support that conclusion? Listen to Mr Cruel here See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nicole Morris has spent years searching for answers in Australia's most haunting missing-persons cases. In this episode of Real Crime with Adam Shand, she discusses her book Lost, the human stories behind unexplained disappearances, and why so many families remain trapped between hope and heartbreak. Drawing on her work with the Australian Missing Persons Register, Nicole offers a rare insight into the enduring impact of not knowing and the relentless search for truth. Read the book here Find out more here See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1990, Victoria passed an extraordinary law to keep notorious violent offender Gary David (Webb) behind bars after his sentence had expired. Former Victorian MP Neil Cole was one of the few politicians to oppose the legislation, arguing it ignored the reality that David was suffering from severe mental illness. In this fascinating interview, Cole reflects on a decision that reshaped Australian law and asks whether preventive detention has become an increasingly accepted response to managing dangerous offenders. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Australia's illicit tobacco trade has fuelled a wave of firebombings, extortion and organised crime. But is history about to repeat itself with alcohol?In this episode of From the Desk, Adam Shand examines how rising alcohol excise may be creating new opportunities for criminal syndicates. From illegal distilleries and counterfeit spirits to billion-dollar tax losses and dangerous contaminated alcohol, he explores the unintended consequences of government policy and asks whether Australia has found the right balance between protecting public health and preventing organised crime. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Janine Haskins tells Adam about her campaign to reform police investigations of suicides and the coronial process in the ACT after the 2020 death of her 23-year-old daughter Bronte. Janine believes that police need to avoid tunnel vision when approaching the suspected suicide of young people where there may be other possibilities. The ACT coroner found that Bronte had taken her own life, but her mother is not convinced and wants other families to avoid the same situation. This episode contains discussions of suicide, mental health, substance dependency, trauma, and the death of a young person. Some listeners may find this content distressing. Please listen with care. If this episode raises concerns for you or someone you know, support is available: Lifeline Australia – 13 11 14 or visit lifeline.org.au Suicide Call Back Service – 1300 659 467 Beyond Blue – 1300 22 4636 In an emergency, or if someone is in immediate danger, call Triple Zero (000). See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lawyer and former NSW politician Peter Breen argues that two of Australia's most controversial murder convictions deserve fresh scrutiny. He explains why he believes the convictions of Phuong Ngo for the murder of MP John Newman and Steven Wayne "Shorty" Jamieson for the murder of Janine Balding were unsafe, raising questions about indemnified witnesses, disputed police interview techniques and evidence that, he says, points to serious miscarriages of justice. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In a new Friday bonus episode, From The Desk, Adam gives his thoughts on the Melbourne tobacco wars and what's driving the unprecedented wave of arson attacks orchestrated from offshore by Kazem Hamad's crime syndicate. Despite recent successes, police can't arrest their way to success. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.